Ep 18: Time Travel and Paradox; Do Our Future Selves Owe Us Anything?

Welcome one and all to Professor battles over a defeat and calamitous commentary. The philosophical chain game today’s episode identity in the four A one K. Well I’m your host Professor medal. I’m Sean. I’m Bruce Gordon River. And you know what we finally got a colon. But there are back X.. So that was saying I’m cone shenanigans. Well I guess today’s episode will be time travel and paradox to your future selves. I’m your host professor of Middle School shown. I’m Bruce Sure. OK. Time travel or brain is at it you fool. What if you will have done. Welcome one and all to Professor metals irate and calamitous commentary with the philosophical chain getting today’s episode identity in the four A one K.. I’m your host Professor model I’m Sean when Bruce i River and then guess what. We got a call and finally really. Yeah somebody actually called us and left a message. Let’s hear it. So that was the thing I’m going to mannequins you fool. What move you will have done. I’m claiming no responsibility for anything that goes well then to day’s episode will be a time traveler and a paradox you our future selves. Anything I am your host Professor metal and still Sean and Bruce still River I think. So paradox isn’t Andrea making my head hurt a little bit. There are many theories of time travel but certainly a living wage. Popular Culture train tries to interpret time travel. It’s a fixed the method of time travel with important time travels really the consequences I mean yes from a theoretical because it’s fun to think about how it might be accomplished. You don’t want to think of how whatever means magic whatever. What would it mean. Sure and a lot of the eries around time travel have to do with ways of correcting for paradoxes right problems like the famous grandfather paradox in which you go back and kill your grandfather before your father has been born and thus there is no father for you to have to have gone back and children are grown. We didn’t do that so you did do it so you didn’t do it for you to do it and. Always but the league gets around this I think one of the most recent notable examples of of correcting the grandfather paradox as it were would be Futurama where fright goes back and spoiler alert become since grandfather sort of which creates a separate type of sort of a paradox which is something that exists only because it exists within the time loop in these are called some propagating solutions to the problem. If I have a solid gold potato riser that I find in Bury in a hole in my backyard and I then decide to go back in time and bury it in my yard so that I can find it later. Where from does the professional riser come and usually it has no cause it just pure effect. Back to future deals with cults ality which is if you change something about the Taiwan in any significant or what ends up being significant although it may be somewhat minor. Way crash really alter the way things play out. So the length of your series has a very specific view on how time handles these things and that is branching timelines. If you change something in a past time that something will significant to nothing that we see that some of the sense can be changed because they are not significant enough to create a whole derivation but we see Marty creating a situation wherein best becomes rich and powerful and creates a whole new future event that an entirely different timeline from the events that went on in his life. When I think back to the future to handle that a little bit better than the first one the first one had a number of problems one of which is marketed and out of existence. If you wouldn’t have been born to come back at what point does this is a page out of her Why at that particular time. What mechanism is causing that. We don’t know. We know you know the problem of the first movie is that when he finally returned to his to his time his parents are cool they’re successful they’re much more well adjusted than they had been originally but that would suggest that his life had gone differently he wouldn’t probably wouldn’t have been hanging out with the weird old a scientist and he probably wouldn’t have gone back in time at all if he had been raised by more well adjusted parents he would have been more well adjusted and so. So the two mores are so part of what we may be seeing fixed point in time fixed events that cannot be changed. Like meeting dark brown and getting into a time machine which has been centrally become fixed plot points for the writers in order to make it work. Certainly there’s other media that has dealt with the whole concept of a fixed point in time. Dr who is a really great example of the idea that a live event is so monumental is changing it would be so drastically different would have such drastically different outcome that it can’t be helped it can’t be stopped it can not happen as it were. Because if it does bad things happen. Time search for collection Dr Who while I think we should try and Dr Who as seriously as we can I think we also have to have a little bit of a disclaimer that even Dr Who deals with time travel about as seriously as I don’t know we all do a little crazy Brits sets up rules in order to create certain limitations so that there can be conflict and then it breaks this rule. It uses a rule basically as the writers need to tell a good story at the time and it’s a great show and I don’t want the WHO being a community to come out thinking we were bashing on them. I know at least several of us in the room are huge fans and would not want to come up in any way of being down on it but when you talk about a very serious time travel there does have to be a little bit of an asterisk next to the time. He wanted me to be nice. Well actually in Dr Who is about the soft sciences it gets when it comes to time travel it is a contrivance first and foremost and a concept of theorization dead last. But that said it does introduce an instant consequence time for the writers of certainly considered what might have to be involved in the kind of convoluted story they’re telling in order to write some of these ships to help them make sense for continuity. That’s that I think the fixed point in time notion. Much like the Marty fades out of existence a notion I don’t really see in physics mechanism would cause that. I think it is. Contravenes for storytelling grossest I think if it were actually serious about time travel is going to discard that notion as well. Well I think that Marty is fading from existence is actually seeing Marty fading from this timeline that essentially we don’t really get a lot of explanation in the movie that was just sort of happened and everybody knows I love this band because you know a lot of pain but I think that might be a representation of a branching timeline being formed one in which he’s better and one in which he’s not and he’s being violently removed from the timeline to the other one at the point that the timeline came from is no longer possible. That’s one ceases to be. There may be a case to make that I think branching timelines are good way to resolve paradox. However I think when you saw it in time that you go back at the point that you go back you create a bridge. Whether or not you really need gauge yourself from having been able to do so I think you’re still there you just become sort of a refugee from a timeline that never existed because the notion that. This goes back to my martinis and would not have grown up to be the same guy this Marty isn’t the same Marty who will exist even if his parents do get together. Certainly from his direct intervention he is in the exurban changed things but I think for sake of everybody sanity and control of the court too much they kind of have to be the same person at the end of the beginning other than maybe learning a valuable moral lessons about how man takes Well that’s certainly one interpretation of arranging time one’s Another possibility is that the branching timelines of it in some way intertwined with the Many Worlds Interpretation of multi verses and quantum theory. It’s possible the branching timelines as we understand them are just our inability to see all the other possible timelines the going to exist and that at any time we were able to go back. Presupposing we were able to go back that we would make choices understand a new series of these branches created from every decision. It’s not that it’s new it’s not that it wasn’t there in the first place. It’s that we didn’t experience the last time. So now we’re on a different course but that that course has always been part of the total of universes in taking a different journey through the garden work and grounds and I think that is the best way to resolve this was a negative paradox particularly if you say that if someone comes back and prevents the timeline that would have caused him to come back. Now we’ve got this extra person here who comes from a time when that never happened. It’s sort of washed ashore in this one where they never existed maybe they were never even born into just sort of this extraneous person left out that’s the only way you could really result it’s odd then it’s almost sort of a self-perpetuating paradox in that that person had no cause they came from. That was never taken so let’s talk about some of the other methods and the resulting error. Cars that have been used a great length in popular media. One of them self correcting. It’s like somebody doesn’t die when they’re supposed to. The universe starts changing it’s over the toilets are changing and so so I searched for him to kill that person like the Final Destination movies where the time travel isn’t physical but it’s information the sort of premonition prophecy that the character has and that the universe sends the other ninety minutes of the film trying to off the rest of the characters that were supposed to die in the first five minutes you go back in time and kill the young Adolf Hitler before his chance to rise to power. But by some strange coincidence he happens to have a friend and Schmidt learns that rise to power and does all things Hitler would have done it’s just that there’s now a very minute change of some sort. The person who did it or the event that happened in there they’re going to go back to this rescue. This prophecy that is in the Mary’s mother and father he leaves town he goes to the need to travel far away something that will never happen. Little does he know he was adopted. Trying to avoid it makes it happen. We see that all the time but the notion of a self correcting universe that things that have a prophecy that is also time travel there is information coming backwards in time. Sure so the same the same kinds of problems apply and we see the same several media options. We see time you when looking forward like in paycheck. We see time manipulation that allows you to send information back when in frequency there are plenty of ways where maybe people can’t be passed back and forth but maybe other things could be but if we’re going to throw in science fiction you had a Star Trek transporter and people or information. Certainly there are some interesting implications of that when you start crossing into stuff like that. I’m not sure. Any era could possibly account for all of the possible variables but I think until we’re not entirely on board with it but there’s a certain thing I like about the notion of a self correcting universe in my problem with the quantum branching in many worlds interpretation of quantum physics is that given all of the particles in the universe any of which could zigzag any number of ways in any given moment. So for every single particle in the universe let’s say it’s got one hundred different things it could do in the next millisecond. Take that hundred to the power of the number of particles in the universe and that’s how many universes are being created every millisecond. There is a huge conservation of energy problem considering how badly and rapidly all these universes of being created. So it’s branching timelines to be somehow woven back together. This one ends up being the same as that one so they’re the same one. If those forking paths could rejoin down the road then it doesn’t have to expand out so far and so greatly. We have sort of a constant star constantly size made universe if we break the branches back together. Well in that kind of gets into some philosophical concepts that we didn’t really talk much about till this point which is determinism soft and hard determinism which act similar to what the concept of destiny would be but not quite. More needed to do something which hard journalism dictates in philosophy dictates everything that is going to happen and has happened will happen in that exact way we just don’t have knowledge of what is going to happen it just will happen is that way. There is no change in it whatsoever. Whereas soft interment ism is the broader strokes is it. We’re it. These bigger things everything kind of reaches the same end goal but it can happen in any different in many different ways than a lot of problems people seem to have with this is special of hard determinism is the notion that brings about that there is no real free will because if everything is going to happen in a specific way and there’s no changing it we don’t have to move all it’s just going to happen. So what you’re describing as I use the terms is what I would think as opposed to Zapatero as pain was I’M is there are a series of events small and large will lead up to some of them that is going to happen one way or another such as in the year twenty seventy three mankind to discover is called fusion. How we got there or which choices about whether to go to Starbucks or another coffee place whether I have dark beer pilsner which color pants I wore on any given day or even up to the level of whether or not I decide to have children whether or not I ran for Congress. These kinds of decisions are still free but there are some of us that are fixed no matter what else I try and talk to journalism as I understand it anyway. I put a gun to your head and I say you can’t leave our arrival future in that you think a decision is to have choice but the choice you have is limited by whether or not you would likely want to die. The chance that you will die over not eating a candy bar very slow and so I increase the odds to the point where you almost didn’t know which one you want to make the heart of Germans and a problem with it is from an epistemological point of view. If we can’t if we can’t know even in principle whether something is so then what opposition to rationally assert that was so and we can’t really know in Peru. Well whether subatomic or quantum things are always going to go the same way but then again our determinism isn’t exactly relevant either into some question and some fairness in what you’re saying and I think we could have a much longer discussion about that. For now let’s try and stick with time travel and move on. That’s for other ways to time travel paradox. Well they can see in some time travel media is the whole destiny aspect like the characters going back and doing things and coming back to their own timeline everything’s the same. Despite this whole looming question of what have what will we have radically changed only to find out they were kind of supposed to do in the first place. Like that but that is I mean sort of fatalism that is and I want to say Babylon five does there’s a couple points where there’s time travel but it was meant to happen that way you find out after the part. So perpetuating version using actions with each other. One thing I think was worth bringing up is the art use thing you’ve got to be extremely careful if you step on a butterfly it can change everything vastly and it would be worse so don’t do that. Then I don’t necessarily think that that’s a better thing is it’s all a set out of it. Maybe stepping on a butterfly could have made things vastly better than I could’ve imagined. Well I think that’s the part of the people concerned about in these situations is the not knowing whether to link things better for the way things worse or everything will just kind of shift sideways a little bit. But and that’s the position we’re in right now. Any change I make right now could lead to a future that is vastly better vastly worse for all. Right but the difference isn’t even a baseline. They have a baseline right. They’re very slimy and this is how things have been up till now and we’re still here we’re still live. We have a culture we develop time travel we have signed those things are for a lack of any specific definition of what could have been pretty good and so you are gambling with a known quantity. If you go back in time stuff on the butterfly. Yes things could be better but they could also be worse. And why take the chance when you’ve already got it pretty good compared to the ME and ME in the here and now not knowing the future the only significant difference is that the ME has gone back to back into the past knowing a certain future has more information than I do now. There were changes in the mix and actions that he does are more likely to be beneficial actions he intentionally takes are more likely to be beneficial if we assume you are smart enough to have calculated out exactly how things go. There will certainly be intended to be better most likely unless you’re mad geniuses decided to go back into their ships two hundred years or older people now you know I’m just I’m talking right now probably a very good idea. It’s true that things could be worse but having more information means that chances are probably better killing Hitler at some point you know is likely to prevent a whole lot of horrific stuff. Although it might not so I don’t this is a bit pedantic but I honestly dislike the whole going back until we had were as the first thing a time traveler would do. But problem is it was killing Hitler. Yes it would feel good for the person who did it and it would potentially inexorably change the timeline. But problem is it wasn’t just Hitler that was the evil bastard it was everyone down the chain of command. You would have to kill an awful lot of Germans to turn to actually. In the exurban Lee changed things so that the Second World War didn’t happen and that was cloned. That’s because I could tell that you there weren’t permission or not having any. Well to that point I like to bring it back to the idea of there are certain things that even if you went back and tried to change them that those things would have to happen in one way or another and specifically those events that perhaps another variation of this is that there are some of us that have to happen but they can be changed a little bit they can be aesthetically different as long as the impact of the same and supporters I would want to point to probably the greatest time travel movie of our generation which is of course Hot Tub Time Machine in which the people going back to do get to affect things of the things they are fact are only capable of making so much of a rebel. One of the main character stays in the back as stated back in time so that he can create a search engine of some notoriety along a certain lines of a search engine we are all familiar with called Google except in his version of the reality that has come about from his being back in time now called Lugo which is the same function but has a difference that it and somebody else is the rich bastard for having And and as such he’s allowed to make changes but only small changes of the don’t impact the actual situation which kind of makes sense because Google didn’t become popular because of its name being popular because a lot of very complicated mathematical work that the founders the Masters I think the age he’s in there and that was that was what drove it made it good. Certainly then we we sort of have the other side of the cooling was that we can’t get out of this thing though let’s just treat the timeline Bleecker own person. No policing and that is of course probably one of the better movies of last generation. Concerning time travel. Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure and Bill and Ted’s bogus journey. You literally are not allowed to discuss time travel though and getting up at least once I’m pretty sure there’s some sort of international document certified by George you know it’s just our destiny but this is a movie that definitely wasn’t afraid to play fast and loose with the timestream. I mean there’s one point where they didn’t really want convenience themselves out of a jail so by leaving a key under a rock. Later the the scene takes place like that. It’s only oh why don’t I just go back later and leave that here this rock. So I do things in the future. You know assuming they do their follow through wish which is interesting because at the very beginning go into it aren’t really known for completing projects they start and they become very good at it. Also Dr who is an aggressor does the same thing to get out of a jail cell decide to do something later. And then you have it. So don’t actually for being such a goofy time travel movie actually does get a lot of its key points in order to keep themselves moving forward. And in that case I’m specifically talking about that jail cell thing. I’m thinking of the moment when they have to explain that only the victors of this current fight will be able to go back in time and put things around for themselves because the other guy will last and thus will not be able to time travel and thus creates an opportunity for them to actually deal very seriously with the problems of causality in this way in a very light hearted and silly venue. Oh absolutely. Another during this and apropos of nothing one of the ways of seeing some shows try to avoid too much potential paradox is the notion that you can never meet yourself the old you can never see the new you. They’re very vague as to why because usually you know just to be avoided but just barely. Potter prisoner of ask them time turner was the greatest sneak around. Sort of. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern ing their own history in the in the wings messing things about in order that things right. Yeah this is a very common plot device in time travel that’s sprinkled in but is not the main focus of a movie or book or whatever because it’s clearly a plot contravenes that way. So a lot of times if something is all about time travel if you’re talking about a movie or or a comic even that has time travel wasn’t central promise. I generally avoid these problems pretty early on by either laying out a very stipulated set of rules for Tundra or by creating a time travel that doesn’t have these problems for some other reason and when you sprinkle time travel into another kind of story then you have to do sort of deal with I haven’t thought of a whole backstory of time travel. Instead I have to kind of give you some hard and fast. Don’t do this and and that’s a pretty easy one to understand why it would be problem. All in the funny thing is it’s kind of written science if you are in the same time period as a former you you have only increased the total mass of the universe assuming the universe is a closed system. And there’s the problem of mass occupying the same space and that’s kind of where that derives from this you shouldn’t interact with yourself because it’s the same mass occupying relatively the same space. And that stuff could potentially happen. Nothing specific standing next to you as well but that also doesn’t make sense or gets me going back to talk to me. Right four year old me is not the same but I am I shedding cells all the time and shedding cells will cause my body to be a different set of things so I can interact with the same set of things in the same way that say I don’t know two watches from different time periods. It’s entirely fair it’s just that’s the way I’ve seen interest before and unfortunately does fall down kind of under its own weight because human beings are constantly rebar regenerating themselves over time whether it’s something interesting to think about it nothing else. Well I have another instance of pop culture use of this not about people but about objects is the reason why fashion twelve Monkeys twelve Monkeys deals with this particular problem by having a watch that goes back in time and the guy is holding the watch and there’s a woman and she’s wearing the earlier version of the watch and he scratches the face of the watch and sort of a universal energy of some sort. Creates a scratch along the face of the watch he’s holding out for visual effect at some point later the actual touch that you watch together creating a paradox and a huge outpouring of energies created by us. Basically what that gets us to is time travel would by its very nature violate this notion we have of the conservation of mass or energy and so whatever mechanism we believe is in place to prevent that would either prevent time travel or would be superseded by this other effect on the conservation of mass or energy applies not to a specific universe or rather the specific path through the branching in. But it’s a little more or potentially that out of the universe or multiverse if of many worlds interpretation is to be believed is not a closed system. Well and I think that is the inherent violation time right is that it’s not a closed system. If things came back in time if things can’t go back in time that is of course right. So as for the multiverse problem another possible solution to the conservation of energy in that level is some decisions will destroy universes and some decisions will creep. So there may be an equal number of destructions and creations happening simultaneously allowing for sort of you know a whole load of bubbles in which one deflates and the energy goes into making a new one somewhere in this is where something like fatalism could come in and collapsing the bridging timelines back into the same universe is something that sort of a gravity pulling pulling the expanding many worlds back together to try and keep the number of them relatively constant. Certainly possible I mean I think there’s speculation of absolutely you could say anything more solid then sure why not. I think time travel would be the only critical test for the many worlds interpretation it remains in principle undecidable unless we could go back a branch and follow a different one. There might be other possible ways that one could enter a different time space dimension of all that would not necessarily involve going back to our own history. It will go to a different history really going to a different future or different now I could end up in a world where somehow all blue jays or green fields to do Star Trek the Roman Empire is still around. Out in their televising letter to worry about. Sure we think many world seriously all possibilities are happening so yes we want the capital letters. Yes Actually thinking about this a little bit brings up a question I hear a fair bit in speculation controlled media is if time travel really could exist. Why have we not seen any time travellers yet wellness into another good reason for the you can’t talk to interact with yourself right so that we have an explanation for why news has now. Because people may say the first thing they do is go back and fill in the world. First thing I would do is go back and tell myself how to get rich. Yes I would immediately try and take care of myself. It was them who were on the list maybe you know and you know I don’t have to kill him you can just go back and give in or go to the list may look like you know go back and tell myself not to eat him sandwiches laced and you’ll end up in an enormous stop talking right about now. That’s one of the fiddlers and things you haven’t gotten any worse. Maybe it’s one of those things like time travel and by extent Time Travelers are her kind of beholden to the most bad ass nondisclosure agreement of all time. If you screw up if you tell anyone if you make yourself known as a time traveler you’ll get erased. Well that would require some kind of organization to enforce that like time cards. Well that would be universal role but a lot of media definitely asteroids and you see it’s not specifically tendre movie but when you talk about the one gently action flick in which he goes around killing his other selves in order to gain power and then another self of him. Decides that’s no good and start fights. Against him. And there is a interdimensional police agency to prevent people from doing this this is a really common travel in time travel that there is some sort of other time zone dimension. Whatever group they didn’t run does this because they created the time travel and so they feel responsible for upholding it being done properly. Almost like our history up until the point where time travel gets created as sort of like a nature preserve and there are park rangers preventing people from messing with her for various reasons. Well there really be no such thing as history if you move if you model with too much everything becomes so so perpetuating a paradox. And if we postulate some form of time travel that everyone has access to it becomes a necessary to think that those kinds of time travel as an Australasian most science fiction is very specifically an individual or a small group of individuals have access to it and can do it. The scientists who invented it or they’re the government people who have been sent back to do something specific or some other limiting factor. If we imagine time travel in the way that pinpoint Guardian for example that time tourism becomes sort of the popular thing to do then you have to consider what so many changes even minute changes constant changes to a timeline could do it. But even if there was some organization preventing time travelers from becoming known and there was it was very limited that very few people could get access to it. Assuming that that our future goes on forever all you’re really doing is reducing the number of them who are here or the chances of one of them appearing publicly. And the further the further the future that goes that still approaches one that still approaches one hundred percent of we haven’t publicly known the time traveler before now so I would suggest that our future is finite or that I think we have a more compelling reason not to mention being from another time. Well yes certainly I mean if somebody came up to you on the street said I’m from the future you’d probably look at them and go Yeah sure everybody you know em kind of brush it off or you know I think they’re a little off because I actually don’t live in one of my favorite time travel shows currently running. It’s called Continuum and in that they deal with two really interesting things one being the crazy time travel and the time traveler who is ostensibly just a nut job because they are saying all of these things will happen in the future but you have no reason to believe them and they also don’t want an interesting solution to leave their lives which is what I would call taking up trash. Basically if you have branching timelines maybe the universe can’t support all and once a change is made from one timeline branch to another video or the old timeline that was in existence before that collapses and is destroyed so the twelve monkeys also has the time traveler goes to an insane asylum. And it also has people go in the past to sickly to prevent their more recent history from occurring. They’re trying to destroy the universe as they know it which is somewhat different from our notion of oh be careful about stepping on a butterfly or it change everything. They’re back internationally to change everything because things have gotten so bad that they’re intolerable as if they were trying to play chicken with chaos. They really are something which is where the butterfly effect comes from I think that things couldn’t possibly get any worse than this. Somebody who comes from a post-apocalyptic or just just to be and sort of future like yeah no I don’t care what happens. It has to change. Something has to change. Pappy said is that the right thing to do. It’s been to the future path also does it repeatedly escape the bad guys by going back in time and getting away. We see them die repeatedly. But then they get someone back in time so that they didn’t say but then they decide to go and change the entire history of it that is in question. Other than such massively apocalyptic scenarios where just everything is as it can be actually even in those situations because the people in those aren’t looking those from our point of view to compare to what amount of hubris does it take to say OK I’m going to we’re going to work in this project to send someone back in time to wipe out the last twenty fifty whatever years because things are that bad. Well and one of the reasons I’ve lived by fives series television show and I mention of the Twelve Monkeys story is because it really digs into some of these moral quandary about what right do we have from our perspective of history to go back and erase many many people’s lives who have had children who have fallen in love and have made contributions who have made sacrifices. What right do we have to go back and take away all of those things to correct a situation when you’re not happy with it and whether that situation is people dying in terrible play or I don’t like my latte. There is a question of why should my satisfaction with that circumstance be a catalyst to demystify these people. Should we just try. I do move forward from where we are and find a solution to our problem rather than trying to have never had a problem in the first. One thing to realize that we’re always at the moment no matter what we are always in every single point whether we’ve gone back in time with the we’re sitting here right now at a moment where some bad things have happened in the past. Many things are possible in the future and that injures our actions. I realize that you know these people want to change the past but in any given moment even where they’re out without going back in time travel they’re still changing the future. Ultimately it’s not really doing anything the people who died are already dead to go back. Yes they would have been alive but then you’re killing other people. You’re actually destroying whole universes. I don’t know if in the original twelve monkeys by Terry Gilliam that the show is based off of the way they frame it as least a sort of moral justification to themselves as there is no real other option. This is the sort of last ditch effort. If this doesn’t happen it all ends. The human experiment does not persist and they feel that any consequence of going back and radically changing the timeline is the better option is that there it is the absolute rock bottom where they are right now there is nowhere to go but up next ten Days of Future Past and Terminator also do things where it actually gets to the point before them before someone makes a decision it has to be at the point of human extermination. Is is based on as well and those definitely let you out of the moral or the entire human race were to be extinct because you didn’t do this. It does give you a bit of a free hand in terms of whether or not a right to do this. There’s a certain more others don’t say you don’t have the right to make that decision for someone else but for the most part most of us I think would get on board with well if everyone’s going to die anyway if I don’t do it I might as well done. That’s actually the reason I like other tack from told me to be here is a much better there is a survivor group in the future. Things are out and there might even be the potential for a cure to the plague going forward. But because of our own petty obsessions and self interest we are pushing forward with this other program and I don’t want to spoil too much of the show because it’s very recent and I don’t want to you know you have to demand reasons for someone not to watch what I think is a very good series but it’s definitely more nuanced look at what would happen if that wasn’t good things if we just had to make the decision to apply that to work. Kill Hitler. I definitely think that’s a big one when you want to frame time travel in as a moral question is would it be. Would it be more preferable to roll the cosmic dice and throw caution to the wind to go back and prevent the rise of the Nazi party the entirety of World War two the development of nuclear weapons the Holocaust everything that immediately comes from the rise of Hitler in the knowledge of party versus the so now seventy years of history that has come about since for some people it definitely seem like it would be a better option to throw the cosmic dice but I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as that. Erasing seventy years of history much worse for further back. He’s too big a problem I think. Any one person or even group of people to decide you know essentially touches on a bit of time travel media if you will the airship pirates novels Captain Robert Brown. He talks about going back in time and stopping very strong speech from happening Hitler from coming to power genocide from occurring that sort of thing and ends up creating a future wherein a charismatic leader comes along and nobody stops to think and question whether or not they should let him take over the world. Horrible horrible things have happened in history there’s absolutely no doubt that the Holocaust was horrible horrible horrible thing. We want a lot of lessons from as a society I think it’s been prevented from oh we would have been much more interesting with it for much longer than we have been I mean it was really rampant rise up until World War two and report father McLachlan so much as it was very popular and then all of a sudden that was not cool anymore. The notion of genocide as being a horrible crime didn’t exist before then ovulation worked each other out before then but then at this point I think I think we I think it got bad enough to actually sort of slap humanity in the face into just a couple things. Maybe not all of us have learned it but enough of us have that it that it’s kind of been cemented in this case that there are certain lines that are just wrong I think. I think it’s dangerous to open the door to what it we learn from the very very bad things in history because by that same logic one can argue why stop the very bad things from happening in the future. Well I think we could almost paraphrase given the sort of. Quandary those who do not let history pass as it as it is our duty to cause it to happen in the first place. I mean that’s a little bulkier than the those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. But if Yeah if not one set of events to make us look at the face of our own evil as it were what would what what is the what is that that meant for him to use a term that any loony frequently uses in a game he developed about time travel. Crow not the only way the only way to really morally inoculate ourselves against or is to have experienced it. Which means that such or is inevitable is important we all do then it’s only building up more and more herbs. Silence river. I grant you the last word. OK so today we kind of a few different more recent time travel stories and I think there’s a lot more that do really well to pique the interest about time travel and ask questions about time travel and I don’t want to list some of them for movies I could definitely suggest primer although it’s really really dense and kind of needs a lot of unpacking it’s probably the hardest science fiction time travel film I’ve ever seen. Time car which we kind of touched on. It’s not it’s super soft but it’s the correcting the timeline so bad stuff doesn’t happen in the future. John wrote of time travel as it were there are some great writings on it on time travel on he’s on B. by Robert Heinlein’s a great short story slash novella deals with the self-correcting paradox of course back to the future and Bill intended everybody out there. Players at those I guess as it were involving time travel great anime of all things that actually deals with causality is Stine’s gate which deals with the problem comes out with and branching timelines and the negative effects they can have and certainly some of the positive votes they can have and I would have a little bit. But both versions of twelve monkeys from what I understand are pretty fantastic I can never leave out for the movie the series sounds pretty great. Quantum Leap is a lot of fun and it’s kind of campy and cheesy but it’s a great eighty’s or use that did these sort of make sure events that are supposed to happen. Do you happen sort of time travel and it is ridiculous but it does play with that concept a little bit. The Time Machine I don’t have the original and she was a novella or one of the movie adaptations is one of the more classic examples one of the first examples we see with time travel Slaughterhouse Five by her bonnet it is sort of it is definitely time travel but it’s it’s instead of willfully time traveling it’s being moved back and forth over most against your will and the way the character deals with that is kind of interesting how hands Crosstime Saloon is a great series of short stories and that was by sprite Robinson that well doesn’t necessarily deal with time travel specifically it is definitely a key mechanic in the sort of universe and deals with some of the more cultural and moral implications of it. The second story is about a sort of time traveler that most people wouldn’t think of it in that way but definitely experiences a lot of the problems time travelers do some of the works. OK Dick Minority Report. Try to stop crimes before they happen. Presidents sort of deal paycheck. Probably not a great example but an example of the US is in the name of a king or is a somewhat infamous Bowl film based off of the Dungeon Siege. But it definitely deals with some sort of time travel. I think sort of but I mean these and there’s a lot more of the interim of the event people are talking of with great new ideas and new concepts involving time travel and new ways to think about it. New questions ask all the time and I definitely suggest as a sort of super genre checking it out you know reading more into it as it were. Oh physics of the impossible by which you’re talking is also deals with this in a more scientific way. How dare you how dare you recommend books by that man Dr Who’s your cock who is my arch nemesis and I will have none of you plucking these materials. Well that’s all the time we have for today. Don’t forget to subscribe and review on i Tunes follow us on Twitter send us your questions and if you like what we’re doing here supported some patriotic join us last time after I get everything put back in its proper order. I will have been your host perfessor MO I was shall I be Bruce. I will be there for you guys. I think I figured out time travel. Oh yeah look here. OK So imagine four balls at the edge of a cliff with something. Address the times free time begins to correct itself and one of those balls falls off the edge of the cliff. It was an all clear. No.

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